Books have been written and movies made on the history of Fannie Mae Duncan with her, all people welcome, iconic Cotton Club operating in Colorado Springs from 1948-1975. Hear from JJ Frazier who, at 17, sang with the orchestra at the Club. Today, JJ continues her legacy of service in the region. Next to share is Shirley Martinez, who is also making history – bringing Martin Luther King Jr.’s granddaughter to keynote the annual All Peoples Breakfast hosted by the MLK Legacy Preservation Society on 2026 Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
Aging with Altitude is recorded in the Pikes Peak region with a focus on topics of aging interest across the country. We talk about both the everyday and novel needs and approaches to age with altitude – whether you’re in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida or Leadville, Colorado. The Pikes Peak Area Agency on Aging is the producer.
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Transcript
MELISSA MARTS:
Join us on this episode celebrating Black History Month here in the Pikes Peak region, along with the rest of the country as well, as I interview Shirley Martinez and JJ Frazier, two really interesting women who have been around in our region for quite a while. They have been history makers themselves, and they have amazing stories to tell, both about themselves as well as our region. Tune in and hear more from these wonderful women.
VOICEOVER:
You’re listening to Studio 809 Podcasts, the cure for common apathy and indifference. Reported side effects include a sense of being informed and engaged. Ask your doctor if Studio 809 is right for you.
MARTS:
I’m looking forward to today’s episode on Black History Month here in the Pikes Peak region. But first, I want to take a moment to thank our sponsor, Beacon Senior News, for their support of Aging with Altitude. Beacon Senior News is the light in our region, telling the stories and featuring all the great activities happening from music to volunteering to what you never knew even existed in our region.
The Beacon Senior News February edition is featuring travel articles highlighting Black history sites in our area. So make sure you pick up your Beacon Senior News anywhere in our region, especially at grocery stores, libraries and more.
And now on to our show.
Welcome to Aging with Altitude, a podcast providing information, advice and resources for seniors, families and caregivers, to help you live your best life, courtesy of the Pikes Peak Area Agency on Aging.
We’re coming to you from the Studio 809 Community Podcast Studio at the Next Us, a professional cooperative environment for small businesses in downtown Colorado Springs. I’m your host, Melissa Marts, with the Pikes Peak Area Council of Governments’ Area Agency on Aging.
In the room today in the studio, I have two, what I would call our iconic women leaders from our region. I know they are very humble in the work that they’ve done over the years, but hopefully today we’re going to have a great time hearing some stories, getting to know them and being inspired to get ready and dig into Black History Month.
So Black History Month is February, typically celebrated. We are hosting and doing wonderful things in our region to celebrate Black History Month. But I always remember that we start in January with Martin Luther King Day and our community had a great program here for Martin Luther King Day, which we have every year. But right now I’d really like to just dig in and introduce our community for people who don’t know them to Shirley Martinez and JJ Frazier. And I’d just like to start with Shirley.
So Shirley, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you’ve been doing in our region over the past many years.
SHIRLEY MARTINEZ:
So first I’d like to say thank you for inviting me. I actually come to Colorado from the military. I’m retired Army.
So I came to this luxurious space because it’s similar to where I grew up in Washington state. But I’ve traveled all over the United States and Europe and different places overseas. And I think that I’ve grown no matter where it’s been, what I’ve experienced.
But I can tell you for Black history, as a seven-year-old growing up for nine months in Waycross, Georgia, 1967, I really understood about civil rights and where Black history kind of started some. So that kind of leads me to who I am and what I do and the advocacy that I do in the community.
MARTS:
And so 1967, how old were you?
MARTINEZ:
Believe I was seven or eight.
MARTS:
Just to kind of plant that seed too for folks to realize that we’re talking about a young girl, right? Not a teenager, not an older middle-aged woman. We’re talking about a seven-year-old girl in 1967.
And so here in Colorado Springs, what are some of the roles that you hold right now in our community, in the Pikes Peak region?
MARTINEZ:
I currently hold the role of president of the MLK Legacy Preservation Society and president of the Pikes Peak Diversity Council. And I’m a board director for Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8. And then I’m on sort of different boards in different capacities.
And with El Pomar for their Emerging Leaders Group, I’m one of the co-chairs.
MARTS:
Yeah, all of those are just such really amazing programs in our community to enrich our region and bring to the top really important issues and leadership for people in our community. I love the Emerging Leaders Program with El Pomar. That’s great.
And you are currently retired, correct?
MARTINEZ:
Yes, I am retired for the third time. But I do own my own consulting business. It’s a part-time thing. You know, S-H-A-N, Bridging Connections, LLC.
So it’s the stuff I’ve always done is bridging connections with people.
MARTS:
Yeah, yeah. And so because we’re sitting here talking about Aging with Altitude, which is a resource that the Pikes Peak Area Council, the Government’s Area Agency on Aging does, you know, it’s interesting that in your retirement, you are still working. And that is a focus for our state legislature in terms of realizing that just because a person retires at a certain age doesn’t mean that they don’t want to work anymore, or that they just want to ride off into the sunset or whatever it might be.
And so you are representing yet another one of those individuals that is working and still contributing in that shape and making our community a great place. So thank you.
And I’ll turn to JJ a little bit. So JJ Frazier, again, tell us a little bit about some of your roles in the community and your history of being here.
JJ FRAZIER:
Hi, Melissa. Thank you for having me as well.
I grew up in North Carolina, and I came to Colorado as a product of the military as well. My father was in the military, so we got stationed here.
However, throughout his career, our family had to move around a lot. But as a young girl, when he would get deployed, we would go back to North Carolina to live with my grandparents. So therefore, I grew up in a segregated community, and then tried to adjust going from a segregated community to the military life. That, you know, it was always, you were this one way or that the other way, excuse me.
However, having said that’s how we got to Colorado Springs. Me, as an adult, I guess I started venturing out into the city as a 17 year old when Fannie Mae Duncan had her Cotton Club downtown. And I auditioned for the band in the Cotton Club, and I got the job at 17. So at that time, I was a senior at Widefield High School and really shouldn’t have been down there. But I was allowed to sing with the band during the Cotton Club here.
MARTS:
Wow. Yeah, so that’s, both of you women have some really great stories and amazing things that you’ve done in our region. For those folks that don’t know, can you share a little bit about Fannie Mae Duncan is for people who are listening?
FRAZIER:
We both know about Fannie Mae Duncan. Fannie Mae Duncan was the owner of the Cotton Club of Colorado Springs for many years down on Colorado Avenue. She is known for bringing a lot of well known black entertainers to the city during a time where that wasn’t popular. She also helped a lot of community people to where she gained the respect of the leadership of Colorado Springs and the state for that matter.
MARTS:
Nice.
FRAZIER:
And so to have known her was just it was a blessing, because she was a genuinely good person. And everyone loved her. And of course, she always felt the Cotton Club, everybody was welcome.
You want to expand on that Shirley?
MARTINEZ:
Yes. So the Pikes Peak Diversity Council back in 2005 was approached by business leaders of the community to pull together an organization which was called the Colorado Springs Diversity Forum, who then reached out to the family of Fannie Mae Duncan. And they modeled the things that they were doing in the community after “everybody welcomed” that became our slogan.
And the family embraced the things that we were doing by us reenacting Cotton Clubs. We would do an everybody welcome festival, where we included everybody at the parks. I remember doing it at Acacia Park and Memorial Park. And we did Cotton Clubs in the City Auditorium.
So we brought it back to the whole purpose of really wanting people to understand that era was so significant for Colorado Springs, in reaching out to not just people of color, blacks, or Hispanics or whites, it was for everybody to understand you had a place at the table here.
And so we continue to this day, to be doing, you know, different events and bringing together groups and cultural groups to partner with each other because “everybody welcome,” especially now, is so important to keep those alliances with each other.
I was part of the statue committee. So I remember, I think I was the youngest one on all the ladies on that group. So I was the driver that would drive to Denver or Loveland or wherever for the statue. But I just remember just the experience of watching that statue being built and being able to do the coloring of the phlegm.
And just the excitement of bringing it here and putting it out there.
MARTS:
No kidding.
MARTINEZ:
Yeah. And we’re still doing things. So we plan on doing things this year for Colorado 150, America 250, about the Cotton Club and festivals.
So yeah, she was an icon that really, especially for us women, that we look to as we do the work that we do.
MARTS:
Yeah. And isn’t it amazing? Because I don’t know how much she, was she a strategic thinker? And, you know, was she picturing doing all these things in one step in front of another? Or was she just an adventurist? And she was just doing it, you know, and making it happen.
What do you think, JJ?
FRAZIER:
I knew her. And I think she was very adventurous.
I don’t think Fannie Mae had a plan. I really do not. And the book written by Kay Esmoil, Everybody Welcome, her memoir explains that. She didn’t have the means to plan to have a business of her own. I think she was shooting from the hip. And later on in life, for me, I went into the nightclub business. And I just copied what she did. And I didn’t have a plan either.
MARTINEZ:
I spent a lot of time with the family in Denver and here just to understand who she was and sitting with her nephews and cousins. And it was just an amazing place because they said she didn’t have a plan, but she had a purpose. So when something comes at you, like the hostel that she made, when you’re told that when you’re bringing in, you know, Nat King Cole and Etta James and all these people, and you’re told they can’t stay in hotels, she figured it out. And she made one.
So part of hers was really understanding that if she wanted to succeed, that she needed to do these things, but she also needed to find allies. And the family, you know, told us lots of stories about her and, you know, when they came from where they did.
And I understand who she was in the latter years when she moved to Denver and then when she moved back here. And I don’t know if you know that apartment building on Cascade and
FRAZIER:
Corona.
MARTINEZ:
Is it Corona? Or yes, it’s called the May of Cascade. That was built in her image and the phlegm is in there.
FRAZIER:
Correction. I thought she was referring to her.
MARTINEZ:
Yeah, not her house, but Nor’wood made an apartment building there on Rio Grande and Cascade. And it’s called the May of Cascade.
MARTS:
Yeah. And that’s a new building, right?
MARTINEZ:
That’s a new apartment building.
MARTS:
And I did not know that.
MARTINEZ:
In fact, the family, when they were here during the statue, we all got to go do the walkthrough.
MARTS:
Oh, good.
MARTINEZ:
And I have a book on it.
MARTS:
Oh, yeah. I did not know that that apartment complex.
MARTINEZ:
So there was a lot of history here.
MARTS:
Thank you for filling us in on that because we’ve had so many apartment buildings get built lately. I’m glad to hear that the Nor’wood company, you know, yeah, did that. So thank you for.
MARTINEZ:
So, JJ, you were mentioning her home. Do they still do tours on the bottom, I think?
FRAZIER:
I’m not sure about the tours, but I know I used to go by there all the time and it became an adult living facility. So it’s still in use.
MARTS:
Yeah, yeah, it is. I go by there quite a bit myself and I see that and they’ve kept it up and are doing good things. They’re serving individuals who need some extra belonging in the community and everyone welcome in some ways, really, you know. Maybe not in the vision that we were thinking at the time, but it is great that they’re providing the services that they are there. So that’s good.
So Fannie Mae is one great story. Before I circle back to both of you, though, and ask for a couple of other good stories of some folks, I do want JJ share just a little bit more about what you do in the region.
So you talked about the fact that at 17, you ended up singing in the Cotton Club. What else are you doing in the community now?
FRAZIER:
Well, currently, I too serve on the school board. I am the vice president for Harrison School District 2 school board. I’m also the chair of the board of directors for the Urbanites, leading the Pikes Peak region, which is formerly the Urban League of the Pikes Peak region.
In my work at Harrison, I’m also the Colorado Association of School Boards delegate and representative for region six. And I’m also a member of the MLK Legacy Preservation Society with Shirley. And most recently, I became an advisor for the Colorado Alliance of Black School Educators.
MARTS:
Great. So a lot of things. You both understand how important it is to keep community rolling and moving along and continuing to embrace diversity and the gifts that all of us can share and make our community a better place.
So for each of you, one of you jump in or whatever, what’s another great person of history here in our community that we would like to talk about too? In addition to Fannie Mae, who’s another person that our listeners should be tuned into for Black History Month? JJ you’re smiling.
FRAZIER:
I’m smiling because this book, The Invisible People of the Pikes Peak Region by John Stokes Holly, chronicles African American history in El Paso County from the 1800s all the way to the late 19, almost 2000s. But the reason I’m smiling is because I had the pleasure of working with the first African American superintendent of schools in El Paso County for Colorado Springs School District 11, Dr. Kenneth Stephen Burnley. And he was just inducted into the Milton E. Proby Cultural Induction Hall at El Pomar in 2022.
So it’s time now, you know how that process works. Every seven years, an African American can be nominated to be inducted into the hall. And this year, it comes up again. So this book mentions not only Dr. Burnley, but it also mentions another citizen in Colorado Springs, Mr. Norvell Simpson. So that just warms my heart because I knew them both.
MARTS:
And so tell us who Norvell Simpson is. Why does he warm your heart? And probably Shirley’s as well.
FRAZIER:
Yes. Norvell Simpson was a servant leader in this community, formerly military. He and his wife, Alice, were staples in this community. They had a love for the community. They had a love for School District 11.
Alice was an employee with the city, but he gave so much. In fact, they named on Wasatch a community center after him, the Norvell Simpson Community Center. And their motto was “people helping people.”
And it’s so sad because we’re talking about Black history. But today, people wouldn’t know who Norvell is, nor would they know that the Norvell Simpson Community Center on Wasatch even existed.
MARTS:
Yeah, yeah, that’s why we’re here. And that is why I think it’s so important that we continue to have time to call out certain types of history and take a moment to acquaint ourselves with things that we might not already know.
I mean, there’s a lot of things. It’s not just always about race. We’re always learning new things, no matter who we are or what we’re doing.
However, it is so important in our culture and our United States to really have some specific times where we are thinking about other races and other ethnicities and taking it into account, because there’s a tendency to just say that we might not need to and that we, you know, accept all people. But when we accept all people, sometimes we do not tell the stories of all people. And so I think having an opportunity to continue to have Black History Month is really important.
And so Norvell Simpson, this is great. Shirley, do you have a…
MARTINEZ:
I would say Peggy Shivers.
MARTS:
Peggy Shivers, okay.
MARTINEZ:
Of course, she has Peggy Shivers Foundation at the library district, which I worked there for four years as their director for multicultural outreach and accessibility. Peggy has books and videos and all of that at the library that can be checked out.
Her husband, of course, was an amazing sculptor, and he was a Tuskegee Airman. So the family brings so much history here.
I can remember, when I first started working, I worked at Colorado Springs Utilities for 20 years after I got out of the military, and I can remember bringing all these individuals from Peggy Shivers to the Brown Bombers, which was the black baseball team, to all the Tuskegee Airmen. And it would be funny because they couldn’t drive. So I used to have to get them in my big Suburban and taking them around to speak at different places because I felt like people needed to know who they were.
They were still alive. I had nine Brown Bombers in my car, and then I would go back to the gate and get the Tuskegee Airmen, take them to the base so people on the base could hear them.
But with Peggy, it was special because her being an opera singer, but her still doing all her concerts here, her still pushing forward young people, and not just our black voices, that she would push voices so that people could hear amazing music, and she still does that to this day.
MARTS;
And she’s still here in our region, right?
MARTINEZ:
She’s still here in our region, and she still will call us, it’s time you take me to lunch. And so you will take her to lunch when she asks you to.
But it’s that kind of history that is still here and our kids need to know. And I know me as a person that’s on school board, I was asked one time while I was out there getting signatures, so if you’re doing something, are you doing it specifically so black students can learn or understand? And I told them, no.
What we do is for everybody, because our students are learning just like all other students. And I said, we need to be able to open up those floodgates so these kids can learn together. And whatever we give one student should be able to be used by all students.
So with Black History coming up, we’re hoping that what we put together and the things that we are working together with other groups, all will be able to reap the benefits from understanding the history, not just here, but the last 250 years.
MARTS:
Yeah, yeah, it’s fun that our nation and then our state are celebrating these massive milestones, at least from when we were recognized as being founded to today. It’s nice to take some moments and think back on all that’s been accomplished, as well as thinking about things that had happened prior to those, you know, official founding times. But it is a nice opportunity to really celebrate the stories, the histories.
And as an organization that acknowledges and really wants to rise up voices of people who are over 60, it’s nice to have two women in the room who’ve retired, but yet are somewhat working, but then also are so vested in education for young people, right? And so the two of you really have impressed me over the years with the scope and the impact that you’ve made in our region, and how fortunate for the young people in our region to also be able to benefit from the two of you and the things that you have to offer. I’m hoping that you might share a little bit about, there’s a term that gets thrown around in my industry called aging while black.
And again, I know that so many of us do have similar experiences, similar things happen to us. But is there a little bit of a difference as you ladies have moved into retirement, but yet then also, you know, continuing to work or be heavily involved in volunteer efforts in the community.
Do you see that there are things that make aging while black important to think about? Or is it just a part that you can just say, we don’t need to worry about that?
FRAZIER:
In our culture, I think too many of us who are 60 and over feel that once they retire, and they’re not working, that they become immobile, and not involved. You know more about it than I do. But personally, I feel that it speeds the aging process, speeds it up. And people become unhealthy. They don’t eat properly. They don’t get involved. Their brain isn’t functioning.
So as chair of the board for the urbanites, we do several events to curb isolation of seniors, because we want them to have somewhere to go, get up out of the chair, leave your home, have a good time. But there’s not that many activities in our city that can accommodate that need.
But it is important for us to curb isolation. So that just because we’re a certain age doesn’t mean we just keel over and die.
MARTS:
Right. Yeah. And I think it’s interesting. Some folks need to have those structured opportunities presented to them. And things that they get invited to come to and are encouraged to be a part of. And I think that we do need more of those in our community and in our town. And knowing what people want to get involved in and trying to create more of those opportunities.
But I also am so impressed because, you know, there are people out there that just are doing things, right? You’re not waiting for that opportunity. You’re just creating it.
And so like in your case, JJ, it’s interesting because, you know, when we talked about Fannie Mae Duncan at the beginning, and she just was making it happen, right? And I feel like I’m sitting in the room with two women that are just making it happen, too.
So keep that rolling, you know, keep that moving forward and keep that energy going. And of course, anything we can do to create opportunities for older adults, great, and, you know, invite them to come. But I also want to encourage people who are listening that, you know, if you have an idea, just go do it, you know, and make it happen.
And so Shirley, for you, what about aging while Black? Any thoughts, comments on that phrase on kind of what that might mean? Does it mean nothing? Does it mean something? Thoughts?
MARTINEZ:
Well, I had pulled some bullet points together because I was really thinking about this, because right now I’m taking care of my 90-year-old mom. And I have her out there with me. And people are like, you brought your mom out here? I was like, yeah, she still hangs out. She’s got a lot of wisdom. And so we need to keep her involved.
But I thought about what it means is like navigating in a world that always values our longevity, but sometimes think that we don’t have enough so where people want to listen to us, and that we can still contribute. I want the world to know that aging doesn’t diminish our relevance. We are still very relevant.
In fact, we’re sharper as we continue to work. We’re keepers of the memories and connections and generations. And we’re trying to help our younger mentee that we’re mentoring about how to do that and how to take that and move it forward.
And I’m not slowing down, because for me, I feel like I’m stepping into a season of purpose, clarity, and unapologetic truth. So it’s about us teaching those behind us how to take up the roles that we’re doing, because we’re in the mentor role now. We’re showing people what it takes, what you have to do, sacrifices you have to make.
And we’re both grandmas. And so we’re teaching our grandkids what it means to be community. So that’s what I would say.
MARTS:
And so say those little three words again. What were they?
MARTINEZ:
I’m stepping into a season of clarity, purpose, and unapologetic truth.
MARTS:
Nice. Thank you.
MARTINEZ:
Because I am relevant.
MARTS:
And I think that aging, the more we tell these stories, the more we realize how diverse it looks for people, right? You have these identities that you put to people like the silent generation or you know certain ways that you look at a generation of people who have aged but the more we tell these stories of how very different it can look for so many people, and we’re open to that, we realize that at 90 years old you know mom can mom is out with her daughter, 90 years, some people are still driving themselves to their events, there’s a lot of diversity out there and we need to keep staying open to tha.
I do want to circle back to when you both were young just an interesting kind of insight into kind of who you guys were as young women too. JJ when you were 17, how did you figure out that you could even go and audition at the Fannie Mae Duncan Cotton Club? How did that even come up?
FRAZIER:
It was word of mouth and I’ve always been an adventurous type, so I went into it thinking, oh it’s not gonna happen so I’m not even gonna worry about it, but I’m gonna do my best. And the band leader at the time, I went to the audition, and he told me he didn’t consider my age, my experience singing, or anything like that. So I started singing three nights a week, three sets a night, three songs a set, while I was still a senior at Widefield High School.
MARTS.
Yeah, yeah, so it was just word of mouth, heading down to downtown Colorado Springs, showing up, not even thinking anything of it, just going and doing it.
FRAZIER:
And while we’re on this I just wanted to let our listeners know that there’s an exhibit on the second floor of the Pioneers Museum that also includes the Cotton Club.
MARTS:
Great.
MARTINEZ:
And there’s a video there and we’re both on it because they interviewed us back then.
MARTS:
Good, good, and thank you both so much for all the pieces that you have been integral in in making Black History relevant in our community, it’s great.
And so Shirley, when you think about being a young girl or a young woman, what’s one of your more interesting, just went out and did and there you were kind of stories to share with our listeners
MARTINEZ:
I think it was when I was in the military as a young lady. I was 18, when I was in the Navy overseas when the 144 hostages were taken, and I was a message center operator. So I was doing the messages to the ships and to the helicopters, in my little quad in there in the message center, and I think at that time, I didn’t know how important that was. I mean, I was 18, 19, but it sort of set myself for being the person that I became, and that would be from my experience of being in Georgia when I was a young girl. I grew up Air Force, so I grew up in my younger years mainly Japan, Hawaii, all those places, so I never knew about civil rights or the South or segregation until we moved, when my dad was TDY, to Georgia, and I realized, there is a difference. And I think that kind of set me as I grew, to not accept “no,” to accept, there could be a substitution or something here or there, and I’ll find a way.
MARTS:
Yeah, having people around you that believed in you and just, whether you purposely soaked it in or not, it was there, and it led you to continuing to be the leaders that you are in our region today. So thank you both very much.
And again, Shirley, you shared your three words, so to speak, but I have asked you both to come up with a word for 2026. And so, I’m wondering, JJ, what would be your word for 2026?
FRAZIER:
My word for 2026 is faith.
MARTS:
Faith.
MARTINEZ:
Our world is in disarray, and I have faith that things will turn around, I really do. So I’ll just keep it at that, it’s faith.
MARTS:
Thank you. And Shirley do you have one word that you want to carve out?
MARTINEZ:
Yes.
MARTS:
What would it be?
MARTINEZ:
Mine is legacy.
MARTS:
Legacy.
MARTINEZ.
A lot of people think that legacy means that stuff that you leave behind. But it’s also about the stuff that you build moving forward. And so again, in a world in chaos, legacy will lead us into different ways of building what is needed and rebuilding what is needed.
MARTS:
Well thank you both. Shirley Martinez, JJ Frazier, thank you ladies.
FRAZIER:
Thank you.
MARTINEZ:
Tank you.
MARTS:
That’s the show. Thanks to all of you for being with us today. Aging with Altitude is created by the Pikes Peak Area Council of Government’s Area Agency on Aging. Visit us at ppacg.org and click on aging services for more information about the programs of the area agency on aging.