During tight financial times, Colorado offers four unique resources to help older adults who own their homes, stay in their homes. El Paso County Treasurer Chuck Broerman, and El Paso County Clerk and Recorder Steve Schleiker present on the senior homestead tax exemption program, property fraud alerts, and escrow and tax deferral programs.
Aging with Altitude is recorded in the Pikes Peak region with a focus on topics of aging interest across the country. We talk about both the everyday and novel needs and approaches to age with altitude – whether you’re in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida or Leadville, Colorado. The Pikes Peak Area Agency on Aging is the producer.
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Transcript
MELISSA MARTS:
Benjamin Franklin said, nothing is certain except death and taxes. Well, seniors know this well, yet Colorado is a trailblazer when it comes to help in safeguarding property tax and Colorado’s financial sanity. Coming up on Aging with Altitude is a live recording.
We recorded at the Pikes Peak Elder Abuse Coalition meeting. This coalition has been running for 20 years. It was a very exciting live recording at the Pikes Peak Elder Abuse Coalition’s meeting. And we had guests from the El Paso County Assessor’s Office and the El Paso County Clerk and Recorder’s Office.
In this episode, you’ll learn more about Colorado’s innovative senior property tax exemption, opportunities to escrow and defer tax, and finally, the fact that Colorado is the first in the nation to develop a resource to stop and track property fraud.
We also want to take a moment to thank Beacon Senior News. Beacon Senior News is sponsoring Aging with Altitude. Each month, we are happy to remind our listeners of the great stories that Beacon Senior News covers, and that you can pick up a copy around the region, as well as checking them out online. Thanks again, Beacon Senior News, for your partnership and sponsorship.
VOICEOVER:
This is Studio 809 Podcasts, informing, connecting, and empowering the residents of the Pikes Peak region.
MARTS:
Welcome to Aging with Altitude, a podcast providing information, advice, and resources for seniors, families, and caregivers to help you live your best life, courtesy of the Pikes Peak Area Agency on Aging.
We’re coming to you from the Studio 809 Community Podcast Studio at The Next Us, a professional cooperative environment for small businesses in downtown Colorado Springs. I’m your host, Melissa Marts, with the Pikes Peak Area Council of Government’s Area Agency on Aging.
We are happy to have two guests with us today. We have Steve Schleiker, who is the El Paso County Clerk and Recorder. We have Chuck Broerman, who is our El Paso County Treasurer.
We are here today to have a conversation about some resources that El Paso County has put in place that can really benefit people with their homes, being able to stay in their homes.
Today we are recording live in the Pikes Peak Elder Abuse Coalition meeting, and we have had a lot of conversations in this meeting about seniors who have lost their homes for one reason or another, or they end up getting, you know, evicted, so evictions, foreclosures, and oftentimes we don’t get a phone call until it’s almost too late. And so to be able to learn some of these resources that your offices have put into place and be able to share those with seniors long before we get the last-minute call, we’re really pretty excited about that.
And so to start, I do want to kind of have a moment for the two of you to share a little bit about who you are and your backgrounds before we jump into the programs. And so I would like to start with Steve, our El Paso County Clerk and Recorder, and I have three kind of questions for you. What is your job responsibility? We’ll start with that one.
STEVE SCHLEIKER:
As your clerk and recorder, I have four statutory duties that I need to adhere to, or that you have tasked me to adhere to. One of which is I’m in charge of all motor vehicle services here in El Paso County, minus what the state office does. So we have four branch offices here in El Paso County that are county offices, and there’s one state office.
I’m also the custodian of the public record, which is recording. So if you come down to the office, it’s pretty neat, where you can come in and find out the whole history of El Paso County, where you can sit there and look at the very first marriage certificate that was done, or General Palmer’s very first piece of property that he purchased here in El Paso County.
And it’s a interesting place when you go down to the vault, because you will go into the land books that are about the size of this table that the three of us are sitting at, and you open it up, and the handwriting back in those days was much different than today. It’s all done in calligraphy. It is all absolutely impeccable writing, just going back to the history.
In addition, I think I’m probably the most popular elected official in the county right now, where everybody got a nice letter from me with a ballot inside of it. I’m in charge of all county elections.
In addition to that, I’m also in charge of clerk to the board. And so what that is, that dynamic team of two, they’re in charge of all the meetings, the minutes, the history of the Board of County Commissioner meetings, the resolutions, medical marijuana licensure, liquor licensure, all that type stuff. So we stay pretty busy in the office.
MARTS:
And tell us a little bit why you decided to run for this office.
SCHLEIKER:
Oh my gosh. I will tell you, one is, guys, you probably, some of you know, I used to serve as your former county assessor. And, you know, looking at that, it really came down to, it was a conversation between this guy and me, who’s the former clerk and recorder, and had the confidence to sit there and say, ‘Steve, I see what you’ve done here, and I know you will take care of the citizens, and I know you’ll take care of the employees. Would you please consider?’
And it was that conversation that we had that planted the seed. And I’m glad that Chuck did that. And I’m humbled that, you know, he felt the confidence to come down and talk to me about that.
MARTS:
Great. And then the last question for you is, what priorities do you see for seniors in our region in general?
SCHLEIKER:
I am a strong advocate of our seniors to basically stay in their home. And, you know, over time as the assessor, and now clerk and recorder, I feel our state has basically forgotten our seniors. And there are a lot of things that are going on in regards to our senior community.
Either they’re being out-taxed or out-valued, or they just can no longer stay in their home. I’ve been a very strong advocate in regards to the senior homestead exemption. Either changing that up, and we’ll talk a little bit more about that, but what I see is assisting our seniors and educating them on the items that are out there for them, which is why I’m glad Chuck and I are here today.
MARTS:
We are too. So thanks for doing that.
SCHLEIKER:
Absolutely.
MARTS:
And so Chuck, I’m going to ask you the same questions. So tell us a little bit about what the El Paso County Treasurer does.
CHUCK BROERMAN:
Yes, as the El Paso County Treasurer, we are the chief collection agency for property taxes. So we collect well over 800 million dollars a year from our citizens in the form of property taxes. We fund approximately 380 districts. That includes the City of Colorado Springs, all the other municipalities in the county of El Paso County, 17 school districts, 21 fire districts, and then just hundreds of special districts.
So we are the primary lifeblood of many organizations within the form of revenue for them to run their operations.
Secondly, I am the bank for the county, so I serve as that role for the county of El Paso County.
And then thirdly, I’m also the public trustee. When citizens do get in a bind, a position where they’re behind on payment of their loan to their mortgage servicer, they get that situation. The public trustee serves as kind of that referee between the lender and the borrower, making sure both groups are acting fairly.
It’s very unique in Colorado here. We are the only state in the union that has a public trustee that kind of serves as that referee, so to speak. Otherwise, in other states, it’s a judicial foreclosure where it’s done through the courts.
So I have three hats that we wear.
MARTS:
Well, great. And you know, Steve made a comment earlier that he was the most popular guy in town right now because of the elections. But it’s possible that you are also maybe a pretty popular guy.
BROERMAN:
I will say the opposite. I am probably the least popular guy. So it’s like death and taxes.
I’m on the bottom of the list. But you know, I’m a tax collector, right? And hopefully after Matthew and the Bible, I can be your second most favorite tax collector.
MARTS:
But I’m going to argue that some of the things you guys are sharing today are going to make you, too, a little bit more popular. But anyway, and so then the second question, why did you run for the office of county treasurer?
BROERMAN:
Well, I worked for the first 20 years of my work career in the semiconductor industry. That industry brought me here and into the beautiful environment here and the opportunities that it’s afforded myself and my wife, who’s a registered nurse. And we’ve had four children and grown up.
And after that industry left the United States, I had to remake myself. And I found myself working for former clerk and recorder Wayne Williams. And then from when he decided to run for secretary of state, I decided to run for clerk and recorder. And then from that segue to the treasurer’s office.
MARTS:
Great. Well, thank you. Thank you both for doing this and the services that you guys do.
And the last question, Chuck, what priorities do you see for seniors in the region?
BROERMAN:
I think to educate seniors, as Steve has said, to make sure that you are an informed consumer and that you’re informed of the ways that you can best interface with our offices and the like. So I think it’s very important for us to educate you so that you know what your responsibilities are and obligations.
MARTS:
Well, thank you. Great.
All right. So now we’re going to take a few minutes and kind of talk specifically about some of the programs that each of your departments kind of are doing. And I’m going to start with Chuck. You have this escrow property tax program.
Tell us a little bit about the escrow property tax. And is this a new resource or has this been around for a while?
BROERMAN:
Sure. Let me do a little bit of introduction. So in the state of Colorado, you have a couple opportunities in order to fill your obligations in the form of paying your property taxes.
You can make one single lump sum payment on April 30th, or you can break it up into two payments, one due February 28th and the other one June 15th. But that could be a big chunk. For many of us throughout our careers, we had a mortgage on our home and the property taxes and our insurance was taken out in a form of monthly payments.
And then that servicer of that mortgage would then transmit those funds for property taxes to our offices. But when folks get to where they have now paid off that loan and get into their senior stages of their life, hopefully, they now have this situation where they have this big lump sum, or maybe two lump sums, that they have to pay. And it can be very stressful for citizens.
You know, they were always before had this in little chunks coming out of their paycheck, out of their bank account, and now they’re confronted with this large bill. And it can be very stressful. We’ve seen citizens come to our office or call us, just they can’t sleep. They’re very frustrated. And how am I going to pay this? It’s due.
They understand the obligation and they want to make good on that. But how do they do that? And it was through that frustration, that communication of frustration is, how can we improve the situation or lot for our citizens?
So that’s how we then became, well, the old adage of how do you eat an elephant? Well, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Well, let’s use that same principle when it comes to property taxes.
Let’s do something like what was done with your service provider when you had a mortgage, is, can we break this down into monthly prepayments? We do it in prepayments because we have obligation under the law as to when these funds are due to our office. And then they’re transmitted to the various districts in El Paso County.
So it’s a prepayment. So we’ve set up a program. It’s an escrow program. It’s like a self escrow where you can go to the El Paso County’s Treasurer’s website. So you can go to your search engine and type in El Paso County Treasurer. Make sure you put Colorado or you might get El Paso, Texas, but El Paso County, Colorado Treasurer’s Office.
And we have on our homepage how you can step through it. Or we also have a short link to a website called escrow taxes, escrow taxes, all one word in plural, dot com. And you can go to that and you click on it and it has a couple of drop down menus and it will ask you your name, your address of your property, and it’ll look you up in our database and match you up with your property and what your past bills are.
And then it can set up a payment program automatically. It’s financially secured. We’ve done the legal work and we’ve worked with a vendor that does this type of escrow type work. So everything is PCI compliant. So your funds are safeguarded.
And then when it comes time for your property taxes to be due on February 28th and then the middle of June, June 15th, that fund is transmitted.
And every step of the way, it’ll give you a reminder of when your payment is due. When you make the payment, it’ll say congratulations. Thank you for making that payment.
And then as it is distributed to our offices on those dates, it’ll let you know. So every step of the way, you have the confidence and the assurance that your money is being paid towards your property tax. You’re under total control in this program.
If you say after a couple of months, you know Chuck, I don’t like this. I’ve got a big bill coming up or something like that. All you got to do is contact our office. We’ll work you through the website and you’ll be able to get your funds within 48 hours. So you are always in control every step of the way.
We are the first in the country to do this. We have 29 other counties in the state of Colorado that has adopted this and we hope we can get all or nearly all the 64 counties to do this. We’ve had other states that are looking into this. They’ve heard about it and inquiring about it.
So we think it’ll be a positive situation for our citizens. But it doesn’t, you don’t have to be a senior citizen. If you paid off your loan and you’re 50 years old and you want to manage it that way, you can do that too.
MARTS:
So you mentioned that Colorado is the first in the country to have done this. And so also the Pikes Peak Elder Abuse Coalition was one of the first Pikes Peak Elder Abuse Coalitions in the country to form and come together. So yay for Colorado.
BROERMAN:
We’re pioneers.
MARTS:
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And so I’m glad to hear that, and I’m glad other folks or other states and also counties are thinking about doing this. And there’s not a cost to people to do this. Or is there a cost?
BROERMAN:
It’s a dollar per month.
MARTS:
Okay.
BROERMAN:
So very small. And I tell people if that’s a hindrance for you, you can come to our office and make those monthly payments, but you got gas. Or you can set up a payment program to send it in every month, but stamps are over 70 cents.
So I think a buck to give you that assurance that your payments are being made, saves the gas, it helps our environment. But you know, if you want to come in, we’d love to see you come in and we’ll be a friendly face and help you through the process.
SCHLEIKER:
I think Chuck’s just being a tad bit shy. And I think we need to sit there and understand the significance of what our county treasurer has done here. And I want to applaud him and his staff. And here’s why.
By Colorado law, if the taxes are not paid by a certain time frame, our county treasurer by law has to take those properties to tax sale, which allows an investor to come in, pay those taxes. And he basically, he or she, has a lien on that property. Then the property owner has three years to redeem those taxes. And then if not, the investor can apply for a treasurer’s deed.
It’s a very sad situation as Chuck alluded to, but now the system that he incorporated is dramatically going to reduce those tax sale properties. And when he instituted this, I was like, man, this is amazing.
But ladies and gentlemen, just to understand the significance of folks where he was talking about the anxiety with our seniors or other property owners is not having to go to tax sale and try to figure out, because many of our seniors don’t have help here locally. They don’t have family here, or they’re just here by themselves. But I will tell you, this was a significant step here in El Paso County to help out our senior community.
BROERMAN:
Thanks, buddy.
MARTS:
I wanted to just kind of comment that it sounds like people have to kind of sign up online and do something that way. We do have a fiduciary in the room who actually does a lot of work with older adults many times and probably can help people do that. But we have a lot of seniors who don’t have the ability to get on computers and do those kinds of things.
And so is it possible for them to come down to your office and sign up as well? And this is just kind of good for us to know, because then, if they don’t have it automatically coming out every month, can the older adults still be able to write their check and send it in every month? How does that look?
BROERMAN:
Yeah, most certainly. If you want to contact our office, (719) 520-7900, we can walk you through that process, or you can stop by our office on Garden of the Gods Road, and we can help you work through that. Also, I’ll tell you, you can maybe reach out to your favorite granddaughter or grandson to help you through the online process.
They’ll be happy to do that, too.
MARTS:
Well, and we definitely, in the kind of senior world, there’s a whole push to do things with technology and to really help older adults get more comfortable with that. Silver Key has a lab, a computer lab, that people can come in and get support there. So I think that it’s a great resource.
And some people in the room might have had calls today. We had a call this week at the area agency on aging from a son whose mom received one of those letters saying the house is going into foreclosure, so you need to take care of this now. So these things happen all the time.
And so this is a great resource. And I am curious, really, since we are the first state to do it, how did you decide to do this? Where did the idea come from?
How did you decide to do it?
BROERMAN:
Well, sometimes adversity puts you in a position and creates an opportunity for you to make a tough situation better. So we had a legislator earlier this year who wanted to implement and force all citizens in Colorado to go to monthly payments.
But it wouldn’t be a prepayment. It would be throughout the year, which would have upset how we deliver our revenue to our school districts and fire districts. It would have created some very difficult cash flow situations for them.
It would also, to change to that system, would increase our mailing costs, the number of staff we would have had to do to process, rather than one or two payments a year, 12 payments. It would have cost El Paso County $640,000 the first year to set up, and about $350,000 every year after that. The City and County of Denver thought the cost of that program would have been $1.2 million. So when myself and several other treasurers testified that we thought we could come up with a better solution, they said, all right, you’re on. So find a better solution.
So we worked with a vendor. And in record time, they were able to put together something in three months. So sometimes situations propel you into discovering a better way of doing something.
MARTS:
Yeah, isn’t that nice? Glad to hear that. All right.
Any final words about this before I move on to the other two programs?
BROERMAN:
No, go right ahead.
MARTS:
Okay. And again, I hope we’ll have some questions at the end too. Okay.
So Steve, you have two programs to tell us about with the El Paso County Clerk and Recorder’s Office. And so tell us a little about the Colorado’s Senior Homestead Exemption Tax. I think lots of folks kind of do know about that, but not all the details and some of the kind of risks that we might be facing.
But tell us a little bit about the Senior Homestead Exemption Tax.
SCHLEIKER:
Sure. Thank you, Melissa. So the Colorado Senior Homestead Property Tax Exemption Program is part of our constitutional amendment.
Back in 2000, we the voters said, hey, we need to help out our seniors. Because back in the early 2000s, guess what, guys, history repeats itself. Did we see the same thing happening today?
So what was happening is, values back in that time, in the late 90s, early 2000s, for those of us who have lived here for quite some time, saw value skyrocketing, which then increased the property taxes, which of course, we’re seeing today. And sadly, seniors were being pushed out of their homes. And we’re start, well, I shouldn’t say starting, we have seen this starting to occur statewide, with values going up 35, 40, 50%, you know, in some areas of the state to include here in El Paso County, which then in turn, that raises taxes.
So in 2000, we as citizens voted to sit there and say, we’re going to help out our seniors. In addition to that, we also passed the Disabled Veteran Exemption Program, but I’m going to focus on the senior homestead. So what does that do?
If the value of your home is $200,000, basically, the exemption says you basically get 50% off. So it exempts the $100,000, so 50% of the first $200,000. So really, it’s a 50% break in their property taxes, which is significant.
And that averages out to about $500 to $600 a year, which then in turn, assists the treasurer. So this program is actually instituted through the Assessor’s Office. So, and I’ll share with you how my office, the treasurer’s office and assessor’s office, how everything ties together.
To qualify for this program, you have to be age 65 years or older. It has to be your primary residence. It cannot be a rental home, a vacation home, an Airbnb or anything like that. It has to be your primary residence.
And you have to reside in that home for 10 or more years consecutively. So as your former assessor, and now as your clerk and recorder, I have pushed for changes in the Senior Homestead Exemption. One of the changes that I think that the state of Colorado needs to make, can anybody here buy a home today for $200,000?
You can’t even get a trailer, mobile home for that value. So what the exemption has not done, it has not kept up with the increases in the market value of properties here in the state. The other thing that I think that’s a problem is the 10 year residency requirement.
Because what happens at the age of 65, guys, what do we do? Downsize. You lose the exemption and you start the 10 year clock all over.
So what’s happening is at the age of 65, when you sit there and get to the age of 77 or beyond, guess what? You’re never allowed to get back into the program. 98% of those individuals never reapply because then they go into a care facility or retirement home, that type of thing.
So there are things that I feel we need to change with the 10 year residency. The other thing is I think it should be portable. Is what we see here in El Paso County is we see a lot of seniors that are coming from our mountain communities because of oxygen.
And so what they do is they sell their property here, they come down to the front range, they move into El Paso County, Castle Rock for lower altitude, and guess what? They no longer can apply for the Senior Homestead Exemption. So those are things collectively that our County Assessor, Mark Flutcher; Treasurer Chuck Broerman, and myself were attached at the hip because the more people that are in the Senior Homestead Exemption and they’re getting that 50% break makes Chuck’s job more better, where he doesn’t have to sit there and take that property, hopefully, to tax sale.
So there are things that we push and try to get bipartisan support and things like that. So there’s challenges facing this exemption. And one of the challenges is, per the constitutional amendment, is it will be reviewed annually.
It is not permanently funded. So we have seniors that do have anxiety each and every year and it comes down to where the legislatures will say, do we have enough money or do we not? And historically, to pay for the Senior Homestead Exemption, which statewide guys, this is about $180 million where the state backfills all the different entities that are reliant upon property tax.
So statewide, $180 million. But if the state is in a budget crisis, as we are, is this is one of the things they look at cutting and they don’t fund it. That is significant because what they have done is, again, is in 2009, 2010, and 2011, they did not fund the program.
And it was a huge burden on our seniors. And if you pull up the statistics, you know, please, reach out to Chuck or I will provide the statistics. But what do you think happened to foreclosure rates during 2009, 10, 11?
Could we attribute that to the legislature making that decision to not fund and look at other things? Maybe. But what I’m looking at right now is this could have a critical impact because our Joint Budget Committee has already mentioned, and Chuck and I have our finger on the pulse with the legislature, with the Joint Budget Committee, what is going on?
You know, it’s just one of those things where they’re talking about, they may not fund the Senior Homestead Exemption for tax year 2026 payable to Chuck in 2027. However, my job as a clerk and recorder is I remind our elected officials about history. And in 2009, 2010, 2011, do you guys think our seniors vote?
Yes, ma’am. Guess what happened to the elected officials that voted not to fund it? They were gone.
And rightfully so, because it’s basically it’s like, hey, you know what, you’re taking money out of my pocket, you’re not supporting me. And in the seniors in this community show up in large for every single election. So when you share that with elected officials with, you know, if their house district reps or state senators, then you start getting their attention.
But I applaud the PPACG, the Pikes Peak Area Council of Governments and the Commission on Aging, because there was discussion not to fund it for 2025. And working with Melissa, they developed a flyer. We sent it out to every house district rep. We sent it out to every state senator through the PPACG. And guess what happened? They voted to fund it.
So I’m hoping to team up with Melissa, the PPACG, Silver Key, to do the same thing to ensure that is funded for 2026. So there’s where we’re looking as far as, I will be a very strong proponent. And there’s no doubt in my mind is some of your countywide elected officials, too, will be up there in full support, which is Chuck, and also Mark Flutcher.
But guys, it doesn’t stop there. All of our countywides and also our Board of County Commissioners are in full support for our seniors and that support that they need.
MARTS:
Yeah. And again, I really am grateful that we were able to on very, very, short notice with the Pikes Peak Commission on Aging, put together some information, share that with the PPACG board. They listened to it. They approved it. And it was very short notice.
I feel that that’s one interesting thing with, you know, legislation and budgets is, you know, we try to plan as best we can way ahead, but then things end up scrambling at the very last minute. And it was a lot of hard work, but we were able to make that happen and do that. So.
SCHLEIKER:
Melissa, you, you were amazing. You plowed the road for that. But for those that have never heard of the senior homestead exemption is those that are listening or listen to this podcast, please go out to the county assessor’s website.
And all you have to do is pull up exemptions. It is a one form. It is so easy to apply for. You can do it online. You could also go into his office and do it there as well. But it’s a very easy process.
MARTS:
And thank you for saying that people can still go in in person. We’re so quick, we’re so quick to want to just do things online. And, and it is a really great thing to be able to do online. And hopefully as people are aging forward, we’re going to see a lot more people comfortable with technology.
So the next thing that your office manages, we’ve all seen the commercials about property tax fraud and people losing their houses and these scary, scary commercials on television and people getting text messages that their house is now, you know, no longer in their possession.
So tell us a little bit about the property fraud protection program that you guys are now doing.
SCHLEIKER:
Absolutely. So property fraud does exist. When somebody files a deed, a lien, a death certificate, anything like that, that is done in the clerk and recorder’s office at the onset when it becomes part of the public record in the recording department.
Then that information is distributed to our county treasurer Chuck, and county assessor Mark Flutcher. And it’s based on that information where they make changes to the ownership of properties.
So if, you know, warranty deeds, or we’re going to put a property into a trust, or if somebody sadly passes away, remove, you know, the spouse that passed away. So that’s how the circle really works because our three offices are really tied at the hip when it comes to all of this.
But when I was your county assessor, and I’ll just share one case in particular, is anybody familiar with 19th and Uintah, the property right there off of, you know, King Soopers right there in Old Colorado City?
Do you guys remember very historic properties as you’re going down 19th and you’re heading north, is off to the left, there’s a very historic property called O’Brien’s Printing. And you see the old historic sign, this was back in the 1900s, which was one of the very first printing outfits here in Colorado Springs. But it’s been in the O’Brien family for years, and there’s seven parcels that are very valuable, as you know, on the west side right there.
So a gentleman filed seven quick claim deeds to assume ownership of those properties without the family knowing. So here’s what’s happening, is this is the biggest blue collar crime in the nation.
These fraudsters don’t want ownership of the property. What they’re doing is they are actually going after our senior citizens because they understand they may not have an encumbrance on the property. They want to sit there and take out a bank note, they want the money pulled from the property, not to have the ownership of it.
So what’s happening is, this actually does happen, and we actually caught this individual, turned it over to the City of Colorado Springs, and our district attorney at that time was Dan May, and prosecuted this individual where now he’s serving 21 years in prison because of the value of those properties, combined, was a significant felony offense.
So when I became clerk, I sat there and I heard all my times as assessor where seniors would reach out to me saying, Steve, do I need to sit there, do this thing that I see on TV as I’m watching Bonanza reruns here every afternoon? And I’m sitting there going, well catch me up on the Bonanza reruns, then let’s talk about fraud alert.
But what I told them is absolutely not. So when I became clerk and recorder within the first two months, we started our very first property fraud program. Because guys, guess where those companies get the information? Your clerk and recorder’s office.
They set up an escrow account and they pay for all of the data. So the data comes from your local clerk and recorder’s office and they’re charging you a hundred, if not $150 a month, to ensure you have a property lock.
I felt that that was wrong, because there is no way when all these people are signing up for it, what they pay for the data, it nowhere compares the profit that they’re making off of our citizens here in El Paso County. So what we did, very quick, is we set up our own where anything that’s filed on your property, if it, like I said, a deed, a lien, you know, quick claim deed, anything filed on your property, we will send you a letter letting you know.
So, you know, we’ve been doing that the last two years. We have caught zero fraudsters because we got that out, letting people know that you will be notified. But folks, what I do recognize is timing is very critical when you’re talking about property fraud and when you record these documents.
So here in the next two weeks, we’re launching a brand new program. We worked with our recording vendor and here soon, you’re going to be able to sign up, set up your own account. And so what that means is you go in, you can have up to 10 properties, it doesn’t matter if it’s commercial, residential or vacant land or mixed use. You’ll be able to sign up and you will get texted or emailed whatever your choice is of anybody that files anything on your property.
So it’s going to be instantaneous. The reason why that is important is because timing is critical is we can sit there, if you notify us and say, Steve, I did not initiate this. We can stop the process and reach out to the district attorney and start an investigation.
I will applaud Chuck. When he was clerk and recorder, he brought on to his own staff an elections fraud investigator from the DA’s office. And when I became clerk and recorder, I said, we’re going to do the same thing. But I expanded those roles with that investigator to include property fraud. So this way, it could be investigated immediately because what happens is, if we don’t catch it on the onset and it becomes part of the permanent record.
We as property owners, it will cost you several thousand dollars, either an attorney, title company fees, to clear title. So that’s not right. So guys, this is free. There is no charge to any citizen to do this. This is free to every citizen. I do see some hard questions that Melissa put on here.
Basically, how does this program compare to what we see in commercials? You don’t pay. It’s the same data and it’s going to be free.
And the thing is what’s being significant is I really need to partner with you guys is, once this goes live, is we are going to hit the media really, really hard. We’re going to hit the social media exceptionally hard and then also work with organizations like the PPACG, Silver Key. And one thing is I’m going to actually invite Chuck to this.
We actually already reached out to our senior centers because we talked about seniors that just don’t know how to operate technology. And Melissa, my mom’s one. We still don’t go to King Super since she writes a check. And I’m like, mom, puppy, puppy. I’m like, you’re holding up the line. She goes, I got to put my driver’s license number down. She does not believe in debit cards. And I’m like, oh, but you know, she has never touched the computer, any of that stuff. You know, I recognize that.
And so what we have done is we’re going to go to the new senior center off of Hancock. We’re going to go to the senior center down in Fountain. And we’ve already reached out to folks, that we’re going to sit there and take our equipment, set it up, help the seniors log in, set up their accounts, which I think is an amazing opportunity to partner with my good friend, Chuck, where we could do the same thing and people could sign up for monthly payments with those seniors to absolutely do that.
And that’s just one thing I love about many of our countywide elected officials. Guys, I will tell you what, as a voter, as a citizen, you will not believe how well we all get along. The teamwork is absolutely amazing.
So with that being said, it’s going to be a very easy online. You go in, you set up your account, you put in your own password so nobody can get into that. Then the system’s going to recognize the ownership. Who’s the grantor? Who owns the property? Because you’re going to be able to sit there and nobody can go in if Steve Schleicher wants to sit there and go into Chuck Broerman’s property and go, uh-uh, it ain’t matching up at all. So there’s going to be some safeguards there as well and no one’s going to be able to sit there and take you out of it or add you into other things.
So with that being said, I’m pretty excited. I think it’s a huge benefit to the citizens where they’re going to get a text or email or anything like that. But again, it’s a message to the individuals that are playing this game. It’s like, you know what? You play stupid games here in El Paso County, you’re going to win a stupid price.
And that’s what’s going to happen.
MARTS:
Thank you. And thank you for thinking about going to those senior centers already and realizing, let’s bring Chuck too. And I believe that you’ll have opportunities to have lots of volunteers there to help you guys if you need some volunteers to pair up with some folks.
So we’ll look forward to those happening. And so at this point, I’m going to remind the group in the room here that we have three very unique, different programs that are benefiting older adults.
We have the opportunity to escrow some property taxes. We have the senior homestead exemption tax. And we have property fraud protection.
And so if folks did write down some questions or have some thoughts, I’d like to open that up to the room now. And when people ask it, I’m going to be repeating your question so that we’ll get it recorded. So anybody have a question, a comment? I’m going to start with our El Paso County Sheriff’s Office.
So the question is, is it possible to include an insurance prepayment as well?
BROERMAN:
Let me do the research there, my due diligence to see. One, I think probably the capability exists, but you know, are there any legal constraints would preclude me. But yeah, I can see a need.
MARTS:
Thank you, all, for the comments and appreciation for them being here today. All right, next question. So again, the question from El Paso County Sheriff’s Office is, are you guys identifying other protections to hopefully keep the scammers from somehow sneaking into the system still and catching people off guard?
SCHLEIKER:
Really good question. So one of the things, just to go back, is not only do we sit there and look at property fraud externally, but we are very, very in tune with also, cybersecurity. And so one of the things is, as many know, the conversation about cybersecurity with elections and having that locked down.
And I will tell you is our IT, county IT team is amazing. I mean, our systems and elections are completely locked down. However, I also sat there and said, this should just not be reserved only for elections, it also needs to be recording.
So here’s what happened is if you guys want to Google this up, and I think Chuck was the clerk at the time when our poor clerk and recorder in Fremont County got hacked and it took their whole entire recording system down, which meant there could be no property transactions. I mean, it was just, it shut the real estate community down and they held them for ransom saying you give us, you know, quarter million dollars, we’ll release this stuff. But what happens is when they take that and they release it, you don’t get all of it back.
So we have been very, very
BROERMAN:
Diligent.
SCHLEIKER:
Thank you. Yeah. Diligent on this stuff. I was like, what’s that word?
But here’s another thing is not only is El Paso County extremely diligent, is, not too long ago, the state incorporated what we call ERTB, which is the Electronic Recording Technical Board. And what this is, is every time you record a document, $2 goes to this ERTB fund. And what has happened is we have pulled this fund where every clerk and recorder can apply for grants.
And over the last two years, I have applied for almost a million dollars in grants, which then in turn has done changes in our recording department to also increase cybersecurity. It is very, very difficult to get into that.
BROERMAN:
And I think you bring up an excellent point. These scammers are very, very smart. We got to stay one step ahead, whether it’s protection of our nation’s secrets in the Department of Defense to details on your property or your bank account.
We just had our Colorado Treasurers Association meeting here at The Antlers this week. And we had a person from U.S. Bank about fraud protection. And she informed us of a lot of very scary stories about what’s happening.
And it’s not just some guy in his basement doing these things. They are large, very sophisticated cabals, nation-state actors that are doing some of these things. So it’s an industry. It’s a source of revenue for these terrorist groups and nation-state actors that mean us harm. So yeah, we’ve got to always stay a step or two ahead of them.
SCHLEIKER:
You know, what I would recommend, and I know Chuck along with myself, I welcome emails. I welcome phone calls, text messages. Guys, you know what?
I go in and I check my record every month. Go in and check your public record. Check, you know, your home ownership and things like that.
Or just send an email going, hey Chuck, hey Steve, I’m just checking in on stuff. Can you let me know if everything is good? And I do this each and every day, answering folks just, yep, everything looks good. Nothing’s been filed on your property. But just part of just checking on yourself as well, checking things.
MARTS:
Great. All right, Julie. So question is, when you guys are at the senior centers and signing people up, what’s to prevent just a Jane Doe from walking in and pretending like she is Chuck and signing up as, well, she couldn’t pretend like she’s Chuck.
She’d have to pretend like she’s Judy, I guess. Sorry about that. What protections are in place that somebody can’t just walk in and try to pretend? Is that what you’re getting at?
Okay. Pretend like there’s somebody else.
SCHLEIKER:
Right. So another good question. I view property rights no differently than I look at our voting rights.
Is what we’re going to do is do no differently than we do elections. Is you show ID and if you’re doing it for somebody else. And guys, we have that in elections where we have a senior or somebody with a disability who can’t sign their name and they make a mark and they do a witness.
So what I’m requiring is a notarized affidavit from that person basically saying, hey, I authorized this individual to set up this account. So no differently than our elections. We’re going to follow the same processes in recording, is ID and also a notarized affidavit where that property owner gives you the permission to do that.
MARTS:
Next question. Question is, is what can we be doing on the other end of these quick claim deals or these house transfer deals to ensure that the people who are filing the paperwork are who they really are?
SCHLEIKER:
So for example, the quick claim deed that you just referenced is a very easy document to fill out, where all you have to do is get the original grantor, which is the owner and the grantee who the ownership is being transferred to and the legal description, which comes off of the county assessor’s website. And all they have to do is pull up a PDF or a Word document that is out there. All you have to do is pull it up and it’s all, you know, out there on most like Justia Law or, you know, things like that.
But here’s what they’re doing is they’re copying pasting a lot of the information off of public websites. In addition to that is they’re snipping because the requirement for it to be recorded, it has to be notarized, but I’m using a little technical jargon, but what they do is they snip document images from the notary. So they’ll sit there and trace around it, copy and paste that, move it over and put it onto the quick claim deed.
So to answer your question, to be proactive, as Chuck alluded to, is try to be a couple steps ahead, is I’m prepared this year where we need to change some legislation on this. Because right now in your recording department, all we do is index grantor, grantee information.
We are going to start here in El Paso County. I don’t need a law to do this, but I think it should be statewide. We’re going to start indexing the notary name. So that way we can sit there and go through and find out and also, you know, identify was this fraud based off the notary.
So we’re going to start doing that as well, but I feel as if we’re doing it here, because I don’t want to create a stigma where they’re going to be like, hey, El Paso County is doing this. Why isn’t all 63 other counties doing this? It’s the write statute to get that passed and make it part of the recording law here in the state of Colorado.
BROERMAN:
And I think Steve brings up a good point. You know, we need to get to know our legislators, whether it’s on the additional fraud prevention exercises that Steve’s putting in place, but also whether it comes to senior homestead exemption, get to know them, you know, let them know your concerns so that going forward, that senior homestead exemption, disabled veterans, this type of stuff, these protections, it’s a brave new world out there. There’s a lot of scary things and I think you’re right to bring up that we need to stay a step ahead.
SCHLEIKER:
If I could share with you, you know, I shared that we were really good friends amongst the county-wide electeds. Guys, many of our legislators, believe it or not, they walk into our offices after every legislative session going, Chuck, what can I do for you? Steve, what were your problems this last year? What can we do for you?
So we have that one-on-one contact with them and we’re having these discussions.
MARTS:
And that shows because I think kind of some of these programs you guys have created are showing that these conversations are happening and we have an advocacy work group with the Pikes Peak Elder Abuse Coalition. And so this is all really good information for us to be learning and hearing from you, let alone our other work groups and some of the things they’re, you know, facing every single day and wondering about and kind of now knowing kind of how to, you know, continue those conversations and kind of get the issues that older adults are facing kind of elevated up a little bit more. So thank you for sharing that.
I think we have time for two more questions. So again, the question from the Elder Justice Center is, are there conversations to change the, kind of limit there, with the $200,000 on the property tax exemption?
SCHLEIKER:
So as I shared with you, I think you and I share the same concern because the values that were set in 2000, the values of properties in that, you know, 25 years ago is nowhere what it is today. And also the mill levies were extremely different at that time, as well, than what they are today because many of our new neighborhoods have what we call a metro district. And so when you sit there and you take a look at it is prior to 2000, is if you now live in an existing neighborhood, you’re not paying into a metro district.
Now these newer neighborhoods have metro districts and what those tax dollars go towards is it pays for, you know, utilities, you know, pays for curb gutter, that type stuff. But that’s an additional mill levy that is placed upon that property and all the properties in that subdivision.
I am absolutely committed, for the eight years I was your county assessor each and every year, I have pushed to increase that exemption from $200,000 to the median average throughout the state of Colorado, just not El Paso County, throughout the state of Colorado. What is the median average of a single family residential home? And guys right now, believe it or not, is about $560,000, not 200,000.
The drawback is, is if you remember, I shared, is those monies have to be backfilled and the state has to come up with the money to backfill that lost revenue, which goes to our cities and towns, fire districts, school districts, things like that. So we have to find a way, and really, you know, when we look at the excess TABOR revenues that were, you know, basically going to pay the senior homestead exemption.
But the first thing that I want to do is I want to make it portable because people are falling out of it. And as Chuck alluded to, we need to eat this elephant one bite at a time, is keep people in the system. And keeping people in the system is if they’re, guys, as your county assessor, I have appraised thousands of properties. And here’s what I’m seeing. And you guys as representatives of Silver Key either have seen it or you have heard the same stories as I have. I live in a four bedroom, three bath tri-level, and I can no longer go up and down the stairs. So I converted my main floor to my bedroom. And so they don’t have a living room. Their bed is in there because they can no longer go up and down the stairs.
And they’re only utilizing a third of the square footage of that home. And they can no longer maintain a home that large. But this exemption, really, because they don’t want to get rid of it, is preventing them from downsizing.
So the first step that I want to take is make it portable, where people stay in there. Then the second is let’s work with the state with the backfill of the funding and increase that to the median average. And what would happen is that exemption would increase or decrease based upon the median average of what the market value in the state of Colorado is.
MARTS:
Okay, great. We’re going to continue on here because I see three more hands that have come up. And so I think we’ll just kind of continue with some more questions.
So I’m going to go to Silver Key. And again, I’m going to try to repeat the question. So go ahead, Silver Key.
So the question again is how information about these programs will be disseminated out into the community? Are there media kits coming? What do those look like?
BROERMAN:
Well, I think you can probably, and I don’t want to speak for Steve, but you can probably reach out to us individually. But El Paso County does have a great communications department
When I rolled out our escrow taxes, or our monthly prepayment program, they helped a lot in helping getting the word out. We reached over 857,000 people through earned media, radio, TV, print. It was just astounding of what they were able to do. So if there’s something that you want us to help you with, customize, yeah, it’s very important.
That’s why we’re here today is to work with you guys to get the word out. We’ve worked with AARP. We’ve worked with AMAC. We’ve been going to groups and speaking. So if you know of avenues that we can reach out to to help folks, but if you see a need, and is there a flyer, a brochure that we, you know, for our program, I have cards here today. But if you need anything specifically that you think can help reach your seniors, let us know and we can work together to get that information to you.
SCHLEIKER:
You bring up a really good question, and really what I want to do is just separate that each elected office is different. We also work with the county PIO, but most of our media, most of everything we share, is from in our office PIO, and that is something extremely important because, as I shared with you, as the statutory requirements that you guys have tasked me with, is we have to have our own PIO in the clerk and recorder’s office, especially when it comes to motor vehicle, which if you guys didn’t know, we pull in a quarter billion dollars of revenue from just motor vehicle services.
Elections, you know, we have that, and the reason why that is important, and, you know, and Chuck, share your thoughts on this, is you have to have somebody that understands the processes and the statutory requirements as far as a PIO to explain to the public, which sometimes the county PIO just doesn’t understand that, but for you, is really reach out to each individual office, but we all, as well, work with the county PIO, but when it comes to things that you shared when you’re looking at a media packet, there is no doubt in my mind I could put that together really quick for you, as well as Chuck and also Mark Flutcher, our assessor.
BROERMAN:
I think for Steve’s office, it’s so large and very specific, and often you have to react on a dime, right, because it changes. For smaller offices like ours, where we have 15 people, we don’t have the luxury of having a PIO because he’s got nearly 150 people, so we rely on the county side of things, but you know, I think work through us and we’ll work with you.
SCHLEIKER:
You know, an example of that is on election night, we’ll have national news agencies in my office, Fox News, CNN, ABC, that are sitting here, and the reason they come to El Paso County is…
BROERMAN:
We’re big.
SCHLEIKER:
We’re big. We’re the most populous, and we have the most voters in the entire state, but usually on election night, you’ll find me under the desk in a fetal position, but whatever you need, call me, I’ll help you out.
BROERMAN:
That’s not true, Steve.
SCHLEIKER:
No.
BROERMAN:
But I do want to mention one other program, just briefly. There is another program, a property tax deferral program. It was created by the General Assembly a number of years ago. It was under the auspice of each county treasurer to run, but a couple years ago, the state treasurer took it from the county treasurer, and now they’re giving it back to us next year.
So what it is, it’s probably not necessarily one of the most advantageous, like the senior homestead exemption, so it decreases your liability, but for some people, this is a ideal fit for them. For folks like you said, sir, Mr. Poulton, about people who are on a limited income, and the cost of taxes, even with these other programs, is too high. You can get a loan that’s from the State of Colorado. It’s at a low interest, 4%, and you can borrow the money to pay your property taxes. The unfortunate part of it, it does put a lien on it, so after all these years that you’ve worked to own your home free and clear, it does encumber your home.
But for some citizens, and I’m working with one right now that is in the northern part of the county, who, you know, she’s had some difficulties. She’s had some medical bills, and she’s really constrained, and we’ve been working with her on a payment program and stuff like that, but this property tax deferral system, which is a lien, is probably really the best way to keep her in her home. So it’s not the most attractive, but we want to keep people in their homes, right?
MARTS:
Great, thank you, and the last question from our ombudsman department.
SCHLEIKER:
There is no doubt a property owner going to an assisted living center, that that is an extraordinary amount of tax dollars than what the property taxes are. I mean, you cannot compare those two, and I think we all know that because we’re all at the age where I’m looking at things from my mom, but with that being said, is part of this is about education, and I also want to talk to you guys about some of the things that are being discussed, that have been discussed over the last several years and continually being discussed today regarding property tax, is we try extremely hard, and we need help to get the word out, because when Chuck mails out that January love letter, which is a tax statement, and if you take a look, the stamp’s upside down, and he says, I’m sending this with care.
But I’ll tell you what, is thank you for the compliment, because we do work with one another extremely close. Because you know, we sit there and say, hey Chuck, can we include some of our program updates in your tax bill? It saves on postage, it saves on taxpayer dollars, because he’s mailing to every single property owner in El Paso County. So when you open up your property tax bill, and I’ve seen people do this, is they take the inserts, if it’s a bright green flyer or a yellow flyer, all they want to concentrate on is Chuck’s Valentine’s letter, and they throw everything away.
There is some important information that is in there, it refers to the senior homestead exemption. We’ve been mailing that out for years in there, and people still today don’t know about it, is because they’re throwing stuff away. They just like, oh this is junk mail, and they throw it away.
I’m also, I teamed up with Chuck, and I said, hey mother, may I, can I sit there and include the property fraud program flyer in there with a, you know, a QR code, where people just go, boop, and they just sign up, they do their thing. And thankfully Chuck’s like, yeah, bring it on, give me, you know, what it’s going to look like, and I’m like, hey, whatever the cost is for my flyer to go in there.
But just to share with you guys, is to piggyback off both your questions, here are some of the discussions, and they are with, they’re popular with some, and rightfully so, they’re not popular with others, is they’re looking at, is, if you’re at retirement age, to exclude paying school taxes. And if you sit there, and you take a look, is 80 percent of our property taxes goes to our local school district. So really, what it comes down to, is if you got a $1,500 yearly property tax bill, 80 percent of that goes to School District 20, School District 11, or whatever district that you’re in. So there is some conversations on that, popular, unpopular, because what happens is, again, we look at, in accordance with Amendment 23, they have to backfill the school district.
The other discussion, which is popular and not popular, is eliminating property tax completely for seniors. And of course, you have to sit there and look at what impact is that going to be on entities that are relying upon property tax, you know, just a number of things, but these are conversations that the state is having, and we’re pushing to continue those conversations, but for myself, is I can absolutely see why seniors are like, you know, I paid into school taxes for years and years and years, and I no longer have children, but historically, we’ve all done the same thing. But with that being said, is I’m going to be very interested over the next couple years, because we’re getting to a point where people are being taxed out of their homes, not only if you’re a senior, but if you’re just somebody that is just barely getting by, working two or three jobs, trying to put food on the table, so this is, you know, something that we need to address.
MARTS:
Okay, well, thank you. I’m going to bring this to a close. I appreciate everything, and again, we talked about three really important programs, and then Chuck brought up the last one here.
So we talked about the escrow property tax, the property tax deferrals, we talked about the senior homestead exemption, and also property fraud protection. So four really critical things that can help seniors in our community and other folks as well.
So thank you guys for being here on this podcast, and until next time, take care.
That’s the show. Thanks to all of you for being with us today. Aging with Altitude is created by the Pikes Peak Area Council of Government’s Area Agency on Aging. Visit us at ppacg.org and click on Aging Services for more information about the programs of the area agency on aging.