Easy and unique tips to find joy in cooking and eating solo. Solo eating for some can be a recipe for disaster. Eating alone either by choice or not is something to pay attention to as we age. Unfortunately, research shows that social isolation often leads to eating alone, poor nutrition and depression. Local chef and owner of Cultivate Health, Michele Mukatis, shares ways to rediscover what makes cooking enjoyable, strategies on recipe re-writes, and more. There is something in this episode for all tastes.
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Transcript
MELISSA MARTS:
Often older adults find themselves stuck eating alone, stuck with the same old, same old. This podcast has some really great opportunities, tips and tricks to rediscover eating solo and awakening those taste buds. Join us for Cultivating a Palate to Eat Solo.
VOICEOVER:
You’re listening to Studio 809 Podcast. This is what community sounds like.
MARTS:
Today, I have a quick thank you for the critical sponsorship and support from the Beacon Senior News. The Beacon Senior News is the go-to source, both in print and online, for uplifting current news stories, as well as a source for events and how to get involved in the Pikes Peak region, Pueblo and Fremont counties. Anything you want to know about folks over 60 or caregivers, seek out your copy today at libraries, grocery stores, and more.
Welcome to Aging with Altitude, a podcast providing information, advice, and resources for seniors, families, and caregivers to help you live your best life, courtesy of the Pikes Peak Area Agency on Aging. We’re coming to you from the Studio 809 Community Podcast Studio at The Next Us, a professional cooperative environment for small businesses in downtown Colorado Springs. I’m your host, Melissa Marts, with the Pikes Peak Area Council of Governments Area Agency on Aging.
I have so many older adults that just never even hardly eat anymore. And so today I thought we would spend a little bit of time talking about what that looks like to cook for one. And in the room with me today, I have Michelle Mukatis with Cultivate Health.
And excited to have her here to mention the different things that she’s done over the years and how she can foster cooking for one. And I’d like to just kick it off a little bit with Michelle sharing a little bit about her favorite meal and tell us what you love about it. And let’s try to get some people who are listening hungry.
MICHELLE MUKATIS:
Thanks, Melissa. It’s good to be here. So favorite meal.
I know what my favorite meal is to eat, which is fondue.
MARTS:
Oh my.
MUKATIS:
It’s, yes. Not something that you eat every day, but it’s good to riff off of it for other things. But yes, I could definitely eat fondue and be completely happy.
Favorite things to make probably revolve around enchiladas or a nice pasta that’s got a lot of vegetables in it. Probably more vegetables than actual pasta. Pesto sauce.
MARTS:
We love our veggies.
MUKATIS:
Yeah.
MARTS:
Good pesto sauce too. Yeah.
MUKATIS:
Right. So the things that I really enjoy making, they end up being things that take more time. And to me, I like the idea of doing it with somebody else.
So often if I make tamales, I got three or four other people in the room helping me make them. And we make a whole bunch at once so that everybody goes home with some and you can freeze them and pull them out later when you need them.
MARTS:
Oh, great idea.
MUKATIS:
Yeah. Freezing food is a great way to just make your time go farther because it takes a lot less time to just continue chopping onions rather than get out and clean up the cutting board and the knife and all of that stuff.
So I make soups all the time that I do that. I’ll make enough for my meal and make enough for leftovers so I can either freeze some or eat it the next day.
MARTS:
Yeah. A whole variety of things from having to have a fancy fondue pot and all the right cheeses to just simple salads, to varieties of soups and enchiladas and tamales. Who makes tamales?
But again, what a fun thing to know how to do. And you do that kind of with some people. What you bring up is an important point that so much of eating really is a social connection.
And when we talk about people who are over 60 and seniors, unfortunately, the news on the street is a lot of older adults don’t eat with people and then they just don’t eat anymore. And there’s a lot of studies out there now that show that people who eat alone have really poor nutrition and then they have poor health, they have health issues. They’ve resorted to cooking TV dinners that are loaded with sodium.
They forget what a good tamale even tastes like. And how do we cultivate, Cultivate Health, that’s the name of your company, which is so fun, cultivate a new tomorrow for some of these folks that might be, oh yeah, I think I wanna experiment again. I might wanna go ahead and give some things a try and just encourage people to jump in and take the risk and explore again.
One of the things that I like about your company that you’ve done is you’ve done a really good job of showing people here’s what’s in your cabinets, here’s what’s in your refrigerator and you teach people just to play with their ingredients. Can you talk a little bit about that process and how you got to that process of just who needs a recipe? Just, let’s play with our food.
MUKATIS:
Well, I did a lot with recipes for a long time and the internet’s actually made that much easier. So whether you’re an internet person or whether you’re not, there are resources out there that help streamline how to cook. One of them I really like is Milk Street.
I don’t know if you guys have heard of that, but they just have such a broad range of different things that you can create. And they’re usually pretty simple, especially with the current books that they have going on. So it’ll be like eight ingredients. It’ll be a grain, so you have some good whole starch. It’ll be lots of vegetables. It’s some kind of good protein.
And a lot of that stuff you can sub out. So that’s what I’ve done over the years is I’ll take a recipe that I like and then I’ll start messing with it. And I’ll be like, not in the mood for brown rice. Maybe I will put in pasta or quinoa or just something different instead, just to see. So if you slowly move into, hmm, that recipe has tomatoes in it and I don’t eat tomatoes, but red peppers are kind of a similar water content and you can do the red for the color. I love cooking with color.
Then you can start to play and see how it works. Usually it’s gonna work out. Baking is very alchemical. You don’t wanna mess with your amounts very much, but cooking is something that you can change everything and it’s still gonna come out pretty good, most likely.
MARTS:
And especially if you’re just cooking for yourself.
MUKATIS:
Surely.
MARTS:
So you don’t have to worry about four people showing up and whether or not it’s gonna be this perfectly, beautiful looking plated meal, or every ingredient’s gonna be cooked to the perfect temperature and texture, because I know I have overcooked things many a time and glad nobody was there to experiment with me.
And I also appreciate you just bringing up the difference between cooking and baking. For somebody like me who is a happy cook, never a baker. And so for people who are listening today, I’d be curious how many people can appreciate that difference too, this baking versus cooking.
And you do a good job of both.
MUKATIS:
It’s taken a while to get there, because I started out as a baker and I was not really a good healthy cook. I just pretty much wanted cookies all the time.
MARTS:
And I’m sure people can appreciate that.
MUKATIS:
Oh yeah.
MARTS:
So let’s switch over from cookies to thinking about tomatoes and bell peppers and different types of whole grains. And so you’ve talked about a lot of really good healthy things. For folks that might not know about healthier eating, what might be some ways for them to get started?
MUKATIS:
Well, one thing I was thinking about when I first started making pizza, for instance, which is just a favorite for almost everyone, I went and got a bobbly crust or I got something that was pre-made pie dough and rolled it out. So it’s not quite the same texture as pizza, but at least it gives you a base that’s simple, ready to go. You don’t have to cook it. You don’t have to worry about yeast and rising and all that kind of stuff.
MARTS:
Good point.
MUKATIS:
And then started to put my ingredients on top of it. So whatever I was in the mood for that day, whether it was lots of vegetables or some kind of meat and cheese or whatever, that was an easy way to experiment with different flavors, different colors. How do you put this together?
So I would say for me personally, I look at my grocery list and I don’t buy things that I know I’m not gonna eat unless I’m really feeling adventurous, but choose the things you know you’re gonna eat and try to use those in a meal. And it can be as simple, for a long time when I was single, I was making salads every day and I would make a different salad every night and maybe I would put a little cheese toast on the side for a little extra protein or something. Maybe I would make tuna salad because you can play with that a little bit, but it’s pretty easy and there are recipes all over the place for that and it lasts.
If you make it, you can usually get two meals out of a can of tuna if you make yourself a tuna salad sandwich. Stick with some easy stuff to get started and then start mixing into that what you might wanna play with. And if you know you don’t like kale, my husband likes kale, I don’t like kale, but I buy it because I know he likes it and then it sits there and it sits there and it sits there until I get motivated to use it.
So just buy the things that you know you’re gonna use.
MARTS:
And so what would be a way to spruce up a tuna salad sandwich on day two or let’s say you had some tuna salad for lunch and then you were just a little hungry too also around dinner time, what would you do to spruce up that tuna salad the second time?
MUKATIS:
So maybe with the first time I would do tuna salad, like a tuna melt. Anything you put cheese on is better. Can you tell I’m a cheese head?
So yeah, find some good wheat bread and toast the bread, put the tuna salad on it, broil it a little. I have a toaster oven. Toaster oven is an essential kitchen item as far as I’m concerned, especially for one person, you don’t need to heat up your entire oven to be able to do lots of things.
And I bake cookies in my oven, I do tuna melts, I bake small pizzas in my little toaster oven. So that’s one thing that’s been super helpful for me. And then, say you do the tuna melt for lunch and maybe for dinner, I don’t eat as much at dinner, I eat a lighter dinner.
So I prefer to have a salad at dinner. These days, maybe put some crackers or a little bread on the side, but then you could put the tuna salad as part of your salad, salad, as your dinner and kind of blend the two things together with some good greens.
MARTS:
And all those veggies that we know we should try to eat, but how often do we eat them?
MUKATIS:
Yeah, good protein. Like when you’re making tuna salad, the other thing is I make egg salad. Sometimes I’ll like even make them alternate of each other so that I don’t get bored with just having tuna all the time because you can make the same thing. You just sub out the eggs for the tuna.
MARTS:
Oh, yeah.
MUKATIS:
And that gives you some good, easily digestible proteins. And then you get a balanced meal that way.
MARTS:
Yeah, good. And you did bring up a good point about a lighter dinner, a lighter evening meal, which is very true for folks as they find themselves eating alone. The typical story of an older adult who’s eating their major meal in the middle of the day, not to say that’s true for everybody by any stretch, but oftentimes, at least, there are less meals that are eaten during the day and kind of a focus on one heavier meal, whether it is around a lunchtime or whether it is around a dinnertime.
But eating solo, you are more focused on just kind of one bigger meal and then lighter stuff further out in the day. So good point on the lighter thing in the evening.
MUKATIS:
Well, and there are two other things that we’ve touched on that, to me, make a lot of sense. And one is, companionship and food do go together to some degree. And I don’t know how many seniors have access, if they have friends who just can’t easily get to them and that kind of thing.
But even if you’ve got a computer, maybe you can get on a little FaceTime or Zoom thing on the computer and make your dinner together. You’re chopping vegetables or mixing up whatever while you’re talking to each other. Or create a supper club, and once a week, you guys can all explore a recipe together and then make enough that everybody gets to go home with a second portion.
So if there’s ways that can happen, I know it’s not exactly cooking for one, but it’s figuring out how to make cooking for one more accessible. So you’re left with something when you do have your next meal where you’re not around anybody else. So that’s one thing.
And then finding ways to keep food around. I eat mostly vegetarian. And so I’m not concerned with having food in my fridge for three or four days. It won’t go bad. If you’re eating meat, you might wanna be a little more careful with that. But generally, you can make something and eat it a day or two later. So you don’t have to like just follow up your meal with the same thing the next day.
And there are tons of things that you can freeze. Like anything with pasta in it, you can freeze. Anything with beans in it, you can freeze. And that’s a good thing to look up on the internet too. Like I just made this, can I freeze it?
And it’ll break down whether the ingredients in it will be okay. Lettuce is not something you wanna freeze. But there’s a lot of different meals. Almost all the other vegetables, any kind of grain, any kind of beans that freeze well, meats freeze well.
So again, share that time with yourself so that when you’re ready for your next meal, you don’t have to worry as much. You just pull it out, warm it up, pull it out a couple of days ahead if you’re gonna make a soup and let it come to unfrozen in your refrigerator. Or pull out your little meal like a lasagna that you made and pop the portion covered in your toaster oven and heat it up.
MARTS:
And I think that I know I freeze a lot of food for later. And I think it is a really fun activity to do, to once a quarter, take stock literally of what’s in the freezer and schedule some times to get that stuff out of there and eat it. So for people who are gonna think about freezing some items, definitely schedule a time on your calendar to go back in there and say, okay, for these next three months, I’m gonna spend some time in June and go through my freezer and make sure I pull out some of this stuff that I made the last couple of months so that I get it all eaten and remind myself of what I did.
MUKATIS:
And don’t forget, one of the most important things is label it. Just take a piece of masking tape, write on it what you are freezing and what the date is and throw it in there. Because invariably I think, oh yeah, I’ll look at that.
I’ll know exactly what it is. And then I go back and I’m like, huh, I wonder if this is chili or minestrone or…
MARTS:
Yeah, exactly. And I think I really want some chili. So I wish I had labeled it.
MUKATIS:
Right.
MARTS:
Lesson learned for sure. And part of what makes freezing things for me work is because we have one of those seal a meal pieces of equipment. You talked about having a toaster oven.
I will just mention two pieces of equipment. I don’t know if you’ve found other effective ways to freeze things, but I think the seal a meal things are really handy because they really do pull all the air out and make it just stay really fresh when it’s frozen. The other thing is that my father, which we’re gonna talk about kind of some things here in a second, but he gave me over Christmas, this kind of mason jar vacuum seal, really easy to use, kind of one handed device, that I can put things in a mason jar and then put the lid on and it vacuum seals the mason jar on the spot to freeze, versus all the other things that we go through when we try to suck air out. So that was a pretty handy kind of mason jar sealing thing to get the air out too when we’re trying to freeze. I don’t know, do you just, what’s your freezing process look like?
MUKATIS:
Well, specifically with soups, I do put them in a mason jar and I leave at least an inch of room at the top because the soup will expand as it freezes. And I’ve had enough times where the glass has cracked that I’m like, yeah, I don’t wanna deal with that anymore. So try to not overfill them.
MARTS:
Good point.
MUKATIS:
And then for things that are more, like pizza’s easy to just stack and wrap in foil and put that in a plastic bag and squish the air out when you seal it. Or if I’m making a lasagna or some kind of a casserole type of thing, macaroni and cheese is a really good one, I put a lot of broccoli in my mac and cheese and then I freeze that. But I do it in these reusable aluminum pie plate type things or you can get them at the grocery store. So it’s like either a square or a round thing that’s got a flat lid. And then I’ll put the lid on. You have to check, it may or may not be a lid that you wanna put in the oven. But then when I take them out, I just put foil over the top and put them in a toaster oven to heat them up. And then I can wash them out and reuse them several times before I put them in the recycling.
MARTS:
Wow, great.
MUKATIS:
Because those eventually can be recycled at least.
MARTS:
Yeah, very, very good. Good tip there.
MUKATIS:
Yeah, bread is an easy thing. Like I’ll get a loaf of nice bread. I’m not gonna eat that fast enough. It’s gonna go moldy. So I’ll cut it or get it sliced and take a couple of pieces out to have at room temperature to toast or eat with a soup or something. And then I’ll put the rest of it in the freezer and just once it’s cut, you can take a little knife and slide it between the slices and pull out a slice or two and not have to let the whole thing go bad.
MARTS:
Exactly, because that’s happened to me. So, yep. And people getting a loaf of bread, it is really hard. And again, a reminder too, that I swear every three months, make sure you go through that freezer and pull things out, be thinking about it.
So when I thought about my dad for a few minutes here, he was a real inspiration for me, even though I don’t cook a lot, but anytime I do cook, I often think about my dad. That’s been my inspiration for cooking.
So what has inspired you over the years? What makes you excited to cook? And was it family? Was it traditions? What kinds of things spurred you on to wanna cook and prepare food, have good meals?
MUKATIS:
Well, the funny thing, I still laugh about this. My first husband was Hungarian in his lineage and he knew how to make all these awesome Hungarian dishes. And I was kind of like a baker at the time and was enjoying all the food he was making. And I thought to myself, well, if he can do this, I can do this.
MARTS:
Wow.
MUKATIS:
So I sort of started there and then I worked at a kitchen store for a while and got to play with a lot of different gadgets. It was one of those that was more specialized, so they would have people come in who would instruct you on why you might want their knife over somebody else’s, or what the different kinds of cookware were and how they react on the stove.
So I got to learn a lot as well as, then I started taking cooking classes at that point and learned some basic techniques like how to slice an onion, which when you don’t know how to slice an onion, it seems daunting. And as soon as you get the quick lowdown on how to do it, and you can look that one up online, you’re like, oh, that takes one minute. It’s so easy.
MARTS:
It really is some technique here.
MUKATIS:
Yeah, totally. So it definitely helped to just start learning some of those techniques. But also just follow through, getting my vegetables out. That’s the thing that’s going to need the most chopping is the vegetables. Getting mad and experimenting with different things.
So now when I eat a salad, I usually grate my carrots because I don’t want to crunch through a real hard, giant chunk of carrot. I’d rather have the carrot kind of be part of the salad mix for instance, or trying cabbage in a salad as something to add to it, not just lettuce. So there’s a little more tooth to it, all kinds of nuts and things like that.
So for me, it was more just about, ooh, I want to learn how to cook all this really rich, good, probably unhealthy stuff. And then through the years, started to realize that maybe this is a little more of a load on my body than I need. So how can I do this and do something that’s a little healthier for myself and do something that’s a little lighter on the system, switching out olive oil for butter, or even half.
I have recipes now that I’ll do half and half where it’s olive oil and butter just because I want that buttery taste, but the olive oil gives you different fat content that’s better for your body.
And I said this earlier about making pasta these days, I tend to put a whole lot more vegetables and other ingredients in, and the pasta becomes like a third of what’s in there when I add my final ingredients to it, whether it’s a red sauce or a pesto or just olive oil and a little bit of spicy chili or something like that.
MARTS:
Yeah, well, and I think for people who are listening, I think taking a little bit of time and kind of thinking back to what did inspire you to want to cook at some point in time. And even though that might bring up a memory that maybe might also make us be a little sad that’s not around anymore. But on the other hand, it also reminds us that there was some curiosity and fun, and we’re always learning new things.
Like you said, you did decide to learn to get away from that heavier, maybe not so healthy for you Hungarian fare and switch over to some kind of healthier options. And so that’s what life is about, is finding those new little pieces of inspiration, but taking a moment to reflect back on some good memories that inspired people to want to cook and hopefully get back into it and try some new things today.
So I’m curious about, you mentioned a little bit about Milk Street already in terms of these online resources that people can check into. I’ve talked to a couple of folks who are over 60 who they have also tuned into some recipe programs and have found them to be helpful. But I also really liked your idea of people taking a little bit of time to maybe reach out to a friend or two that they know and maybe do a cooking class together. And I know this talk right now is about cooking for one and encouraging people to, cooking solo and all of that, but I can’t overlook how important this food is a social connection.
And so if people are able to tune into an online opportunity, I think that was a good piece that you brought up earlier about Milk Street. Are there other online recipe or cooking programs that you’ve found that have been good?
MUKATIS:
I don’t tend to watch cooking programs. I just don’t really have the time to invest in that these days, but yes, obviously there are. And America’s Test Kitchen has different things like videos, Milk Street has videos that you can use.
They also have beautiful books that’ll give you the picture and the recipe. So they’re kind of like a one-stop shop, but then there’s a bunch of people who have blogs where, when I’m looking for a specific ingredient, say I wanna do a gluten-free muffin or something like that, and I’ll look it up online, I’ll do a quick Google search. And I know not everybody has the capacity to be online.
So there are other resources for that. But doing just a quick Google search, you get to see some of the websites that will come up, the people’s blogs that will come up more regularly based on whatever searches that you’re looking for. I wanted to cook Thai food the other day, and so I looked up a recipe for Pad Thai.
MARTS:
Wow.
MUKATIS:
And it was much easier because there’s people who chime in and say different things about the recipe, like I found using these ingredients or a little less of this was better for my palate. It gives you stars because most of the people who are going on and making comments are also giving a rating to the recipe. So I tend to not pick recipes that are less than four stars. The closer to five, the better.
MARTS:
Good point, yeah.
MUKATIS:
Right. But we also have some great places around town where they sell cookbooks. So go into a Sparrowhawk and saying, okay, I really like Mexican food and I really need a book that’s accessible for somebody who wants to do it, but do it simply. What do you have?
And if they don’t have it, they might be able to send you somewhere else, like maybe Poor Richard’s has that book you’re looking for, or maybe there’s a used bookstore and you just go through and sit around for a couple hours looking through some cookbooks or an hour and find something that fits whatever your taste buds are craving.
We all have to eat. That is the point of it. So if we eat and we can make it a little more fun.
MARTS:
Yeah, yeah. So there is an element of encouraging and thinking about doing some healthy choices, but eating solo, eating alone, it really is also just about doing some things that are gonna make you feel good too and get back in touch with what’s gonna make you tick around eating and take some time to enjoy that as you step off on a new leaf and look at playing with food differently, cultivating health, as the name of your company is, and just hopefully have a great time going forward, just getting reacquainted with food.
I do wanna ask one more question before we come to a close with this. One of the things that I think people struggle with eating alone is this idea of how do I handle portions? Like you look at a recipe and you’re gonna make a recipe for four people. And it’s possible too to freeze some of that, but what else could people do to manage and not get hung up on looking at a recipe that’s gonna make a lot of food, that they’re gonna think, oh, well, I’m just gonna store this for later. What thoughts do you have around that?
MUKATIS:
Well, and there are people who don’t really like leftovers for whatever reason.
MARTS:
I guess that’s true.
MUKATIS:
I’m a total leftover girl.
MARTS:
You’re a leftover girl, are you?
MUKATIS:
I am. I always make more than enough because it’s so much easier the next day, but that’s me.
So I would say, if you can figure out whether you have a cookbook or an online resource or whatever it is, usually they’re gonna tell you it makes four to six. It’s four to six portions, something like that. And then you can start to break it down based on how much you eat.
So maybe you just cut it in half one day and just see how much you eat, whether it’s gonna be a four or six portion meal. So then the next time, oh, I can break that half down by half. I buy cookbooks and I write in them.
So when I’m breaking down a recipe, I’m right next to it. Oh, if I’m gonna do a third of a recipe because I really only want two portions because that’s all I can handle, then I’m writing in exactly, and figuring that out before I start, what I’m gonna need for that recipe. And that brings up a really good point because there’s something that the French call mise en place, which means everything in its place, put it in its place.
So you get everything out ahead of time. You get it portioned, chopped up, whatever you gotta do before you ever start to cook. Because then you’re not gonna forget anything. You’re not gonna have wrong amounts. You’ve read your recipe. Oh, these things are gonna go in at the same time so you can put your onions and your peppers in the same bowl to hold them until you’re ready to start cooking. And it makes things go more smoothly.
So at the end of it, you don’t go, did I put in sugar instead of salt or whatever it is.
MARTS:
Yeah, or all of a sudden you find out you just don’t have that one thing, which sometimes isn’t gonna make or break anything, but sometimes it can be a little frustrating, but anyway.
And we’ve talked a lot about recipes. I like your little reference to, what was the French term that you just shared?
MUKATIS:
Mise en place.
MARTS:
Yep, everything.
MUKATIS:
It’s like putting everything in its place.
MARTS:
Everything in its place. And so one of the pieces that I really like about Cultivate Health is that you do have the ability to take a look at everything that’s there in someone’s pantry and just start to play with food. And then everything’s in its place and you’re just doing it and without a recipe.
And so if people are wanting to talk with you more or find out more about Cultivate Health, how can they get in touch with you?
MUKATIS:
My email address is cultivatehealth@gmail.com and that would be a great place to start. Right now, I’m in between things. I also do a lot with gardening and teaching people how to grow some of their own food. But I would just say, yeah, have somebody reach out to me.
Send me an email. I don’t always respond immediately, but I’m doing my best and I will get back to you because I track those.
MARTS:
And you have either your hands in dirt or you have your hands in food. And I’m glad that you brought up the gardening piece too because one of the other pieces about your company that’s interesting is this kind of full circle thing and people can grow some food too. So for listeners who have access to a window box to grow a little bit of herbs, or if they still have access to a yard and wanna just get back in touch with some things, yeah.
MUKATIS:
You can grow lettuce on your patio if you have, right, if you have decent exposure. If it’s a north side, it might be a little harder, but mostly people can do stuff like that.
MARTS:
Yeah. Well, thank you very much, Michelle. I encourage folks to get back in touch with food and eating solo or finding ways to have some companions to join you, but definitely get back in touch with some food, have some fun, and looking forward to talking to folks next time.
That’s the show. Thanks to all of you for being with us today. Aging with Altitude is created by the Pikes Peak Area Council of Government’s Area Agency on Aging.
Visit us at ppacg.org and click on aging services for more information about the programs of the area agency on aging.